Any Religion Is Better Than None - Part Two

PART TWO

Guitarist MR.BRETT and bassist JAY were interviewed by phone for Rockpool on 18 March 1992 by Jack Rabid.

transcribed by Richard Bensam

 

 

JR: So, is there anything else that you want to talk about?

BRETT: Um, let's see. Well, we've covered black holes, Southeast Asia, Persian Gulf...

JR: How about some personal things about the group? Is everybody now married and having children?

BRETT: No. We're all single and having children.

JAY: We're all independently wealthy.

BRETT: We're all married, but each of our wives is having babies from a different band member.

JR: Sort of like the Sugarcubes.

BRETT: Like, Greg's wife is having a baby from Jay...

JAY: Hey!

BRETT: Jay's wife is having a baby from Hetson...

JAY: Hey!

BRETT: My wife is having a baby from Jay...

JAY: HEY! Why am I the only one who gets around so much?

BRETT: Oh, it may be from Greg.

JR: Your reputation precedes you. And Bobby's standing around on the outside going, how come I don't get any of this?

JAY: HEY! I guess it's not known that we...it's kind of known that we all...that Brett and I and Greg Graffin have sons.

BRETT: All three of us have sons, and their names are...Greg's son's name is Graham, Jay's son is named Miles, and my son is named Maxwell.

JR: And their expected ages are?

BRETT: Well, Maxwell and Miles are six days apart, aren't they, Jay?

JAY: Yeah. So they're like seven months, seven and a half months. And Graham is a couple of months old.

JR: So all are recent additions.

JAY: Oh, yeah.

BRETT: Yeah. Brand nubians.

JR: How will that impact your ability to continue as Bad Religion?

BRETT: It'll just fucking make it easier 'cause now we have roadies!

JAY: That's right, as soon as they're old enough to lift equipment they're coming on the road! (general laughter)

JR: That's great.

JAY: Tote that barge!

JR: Have you ever heard of child labor laws?

BRETT: Watch it!

JAY: What are you talking about there, that's my kid!

BRETT: It's not labor, they're chores. (Jack breaks up) That's the difference.

JR: So instead of doing the dishes, they have to change strings.

BRETT: Tubes. Strings.

JR: Put your strap back on you mid-gig when somebody crashes into you.

JAY: Right. (laughter)

JR: Have you been getting much interest from people outside of the hardcore scene?

BRETT: Um, yeah, I think so.

JAY: You mean like artists?

JR: Just in general, from your mail and the people that come to your shows, are you seeing more and more people who have less and less connection [to that scene]?

BRETT: Especially in Europe.

JAY: I'd say, like, less, the fanatical hardcore people like the Mohawks and that stuff, you're getting a lot more people that have and idea of the ideology of punk.

BRETT: Do you know what the Ramones audience is like?

JR: No. I stopped going to see them about five years ago.

BRETT: Okay, I hate to...it's hard to explain, but in Europe that's kind of how our audience is. In other words, it's a good cross-section of the alternative music scene will come to see us. It's like in Europe we're almost like staples of underground music or something. Wouldn't you say, Jay?

JAY: Yeah. I'd say so. I'd say the same here.

BRETT: Well, here we get a pretty hardcore audience.

JAY: Yeah, that's true.

BRETT: Here we don't get a real broad swath, but there we get speed death metal kids, we get the Gothic kids, we get hardcore kids, we get squatters, we get industrial people, it's like they're all into us over there.

JAY: I guess the answer, Jack, is yes.

JR: You actually recorded a Ramones cover recently, didn't you?

BRETT: Live at sound check in Tijuana.

JR: Is that what that's from? "We're a Happy Family," right?

BRETT: Right.

JR: Why'd you pick that one? (laughter)

JAY: It was the only one we all knew.

BRETT: Because we are.

JR: Which one of you is taking the Thorazine?

BRETT: I used to be.

JR: You actually took them once upon a time?

BRETT: Jack, if we're going to start getting into what I've taken once upon a time it's going to be a long interview.

JR: Tried everything at least once, huh?

BRETT: You said it, not me. You know what Thorazine does, don't you?

JR: It's a downer, isn't it?

BRETT: It takes you down off an acid trip.

JR: Oh really?

BRETT: If you're not too high to swallow Thorazine.

JR: (laughs) That's really funny.

BRETT: Thorazine they used for schizophrenics, and LSD is basically artificially-induced schizophrenia. So any of you kids out there experimenting, if you're having a bad acid trip get your friend to inject you with a little Thorazine and you'll feel all better. That's about the only thing that'll do it, though.

JR: Jesus. I'll keep that in mind.

BRETT: I feel like Mr. Wizerd here.

JR: (bravely making his way back to the subject) Now, did you know when you did the soundcheck that you were recording it for the Ramones tribute?

BRETT: Yeah, we did it to DAT. It sounds a little raw, but...you know how it sounds so cavernous? Be'cause the club was empty.

JR: Did you think about playing it with an actual live crowd?

JAY: We thought about playing it in front of the crowd, but then we said, screw it, we don't have time to mess around with this stuff, we've got 98 Bad Religion songs to play.

BRETT: And we've never done a cover live.

JAY: We've never done a cover live, so why start with this one?

BRETT: Well, we never have with the band as it is now.

JAY: We did covers in like, '82, but...

BRETT: Back in the early days, we did, and we've done "Give Punk a Chance."

JR: What? "Give Punk a Chance"?

JAY: You know "Give Peace a Chance"?

JR: Yeah, that thing Yoko Ono and Lenny Kravitz did? (laughs)

JAY: Whatever. It's not bad, it was the same idea but we did it at the Palladium.

BRETT: And it wasn't "Give Peace a Chance," it was "Give Punk a Chance." "All we are saying is Give Punk a Chance."

JAY: "All we are saying." And that's all we said.

BRETT: With good harmony. We did that like four times and then went into "Heaven is Falling."

JAY: [something] A quarter of a cover song.

JR: What covers were you doing in the old days?

BRETT: There's a bootleg out of the band when Jay wasn't in, a configuration of Bad Religion that included myself, Graffin, Paul Dedonna, and a guy named Davey Goldman. And on that bootleg we played "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin. And "Louie Louie," which was a tried-and-true-punk cover song.

JR: By Richard Berry.

BRETT: Yeah. With the audience doing the appropriate growls, barks, and chortles.

JR: I hope it was as funny as the Stooges' version.

BRETT: It was pretty hilarious, because I had just gotten this digital delay and it was all over everything. And that's out on bootleg, that's the only reason I can't deny that we've ever done covers. Or else I would be more than happy to deny it.

JR: Anything else?

BRETT: In '82 we used to do "American Band" by Grand Funk Railroad.

JR: Oh yeah.

JAY: We used to do "We Gotta Get Out of This Place."

JR: By the Animals.

BRETT: That was in '82.

JAY: Yeah, that was a good one.

JR: Were you familiar with the Angelic Upstarts' version when you were doing it?

BRETT: Yeah, we had learned it because we were about to go play Chino Prison.

JR: You should have done "San Quentin" by Johnny Cash and just changed it to "San Chino."

BRETT: Yeah, well anyway, we never even went there.

JAY: We ended up not being allowed to go.

JR: At the last minute they thought you'd wind up the inmates too much?

JAY: Probably.

BRETT: Who knows?

JR: So, okay, we can wrap this up now if you want to. There must be something else that you wanted to address, though.

BRETT: Um...let me think. Vote for Jerry Brown. Let's see, what else?

JR: Do you think of "California Uber Alles" every time you see Jerry Brown on the TV these days?

JAY: I do.

BRETT: I'm for Jerry Brown.

JAY: I can't help it. Every time I see his face I hear that bassline: (demonstrates) dudududu...I can't help it!

JR: (laughing) Me too!

BRETT: Well anyway, I'm still for him, so I don't care.

JAY: I can see Jello just strangling him.

JR: (laughs)

BRETT: I bet Jello's going to vote for him, though.

JAY: (dubiously) Maybe. Jello probably won't vote.

JR: Well, it's better than voting for Tsongas; he's pro-nuclear power.

JAY: Oh, great.

JR: That's great for a Democratic candidate, isn't it?

BRETT: Not only that, but he's practically a Republican. Let's face it, man. The guy's got no new ideas whatsoever. At least Brown...

JAY: Don't ever vote for a guy with a silent letter in his name.

BRETT: Exactly. Why's it there. At least Brown wants socialized medicine and has some interesting ideas.

JR: And Clinton is an idiot.

BRETT: Actually, Clinton's pretty intelligent, but he's just...he's playing the game, he's not any different from anyone else. Did you read that letter he wrote during the Vietnam war?

JR: Oh, yeah, sure I did.

BRETT: I thought that was pretty intelligent.

JR: Even then he knew his career was on the line.

BRETT: Yup. But I mean, he's well-spoken and he's smart. Sharp. But I...

JAY: It's just that his sexual prowess precedes him.

JR: I thought it was more his opportunism precedes him, as well.

BRETT: His opportunism and his wishy-washiness.

JAY: But that's what everybody's saying about Brown as well. They're saying five years ago the guy was just off-the-wall-tightass, and now he's walking around in a turtleneck and a sportscoat, going like, "Vote for me!"

BRETT: He's been born again, man! He was fucking in India with Mother Teresa [ I beg your pardon? -- R] saving dead people.

JAY: I'm totally into him being born again.

BRETT: Fucking living in a fucking monastery in Japan. He freaked out, got new ideas, came back, and he's fucking PC, man.

JAY: I'm into him, man.

JR: Have you called his 900 number yet?

BRETT: Yeah, I have. I've gotten literature from him.

JAY: We called it twice.

BRETT: He's cool.

JAY: Once was to ask for literature and the second time just to ask if he was there.

BRETT: Anyway, I'm going to vote for him.

JAY: Hey, Brett.

BRETT: What?

JAY: That's a personal thing.

BRETT: I know. I know, so what? (laughter)

JAY: I'm voting for him too, just 'cause Brett is.

BRETT: I'm going to tell the personal things I want to tell, and keep personal the personal things I don't want to tell.

JAY: That's right.

JR: I wanted to vote for Ralph Nader but his current campaign seems to have died already.

JAY: Didn't even get off the ground.

JR: Nope! Too bad.

JAY: No, he'd be too speculative over everything. He wouldn't get anything done.

BRETT: Vote for Noam Chomsky! We need an anarachist for President, man.

JAY: Vote for Noam Chomsky, he'll just kick the shit out of everybody.

BRETT: He'll just collectivise everything, man. We'll share.

JAY: I'll give everything that I don't have to everybody.

BRETT: Time to start sharing. Time to have socialized medicine. It's time for a change! Vote for Brett!

JAY: Vote for Brett! I'm voting for Brett!

JR: Mr. Brett.

JAY: Just vote for socialized medicine, that's all you need to know. Vote for socialized medicine and vote for...

BRETT: Vote for fucking education...

JAY: Yeah.

BRETT: ...affirmative action, and pro-choice...

JR: I never heard of those candidates before.

JAY: They don't exist!

BRETT: Jerry Brown's for all that shit, man, he's like the most liberal one up there.

JR: What about his flat tax?

BRETT: Well, I've been looking into that, and I've got to read the book that he was recommending because I think the flat tax is good, but I'm not sure about the value-added tax. I don't know how far back it goes. Be'cause if it's value added every time, then it could really 'cause some bad inflation. I don't really understand it...the verdict's out on that. I think it could probably be a good idea.

JAY: Seems like a good idea on paper.

BRETT: Get some of these giant corporations to pay some of their tax.

JAY: Yeah, it would be out of the fucking deficit we're in. If only because people like me and Brett can't afford to make that fucking payment.

BRETT: (mocking voice) Fuck Exxon, man! I don't wanna fucking die for Exxon!

JAY: (joining in) I'm not gonna be no fucking puppet on a string!

BRETT: You can keep your fucking money, Mister Tovar, I'm not gonna die for Exxon.

JAY: Did you get any of that, Jack? Do you know where that came from?

JR: No.

JAY: Nevermind.

JR: I know who Tovar is, though.

JAY: (laughs) His reputation precedes him.

BRETT: Okay. Listen, I gotta go pick up my amp in North Hollywood.

JAY: Cool, dude. Are we practicing tonight -- I hope not?

BRETT: Yeah, six.

JAY: Fuck!

JR: We're going to see you when? In June or something?

JAY: We'll be on a national tour in July.

JR: And you'll be playing New York when?

JAY: July.

BRETT: Okay, listen, I gotta run, you guys. Okay. Jack, I'm gonna go. I hope I don't disconnect you two when I go.

JAY: I'll try to see you at six.

BRETT: Okay. Jack?

JR: Thanks, Brett! See you in July!

JR: Are you doing Europe too, by the way?

JAY: What's that?

JR: Are you doing Europe after your national tour?

JAY: No, we're doing it before. We're doing Europe in June.

JR: Oh, okay. Got it.

BRETT: Okay, you guys, see you later. (hangs up)

JAY: Still there, Jack?

JR: Yeah, Have you anything that you want to add?

JAY: I think we covered anything. We don't need to put any little excerpt at the end.

JR: Sometimes when people are interviewing me, there's like something that just hits me while I'm talking but the person never cues me whith his questions.

JAY: You know what the thing was...for a while there the interviews were getting really stagnant. "How long you guys been together, what keeps you guys together, what does it mean in this song..." I swear to God, Jack, every interview we were doing was like that. But within the past eight months they've gotten really brilliant, like asking questions that make you go, "Fuck! I don't know. I never thought about that." Then you'd have to answer it. So lately there's nothing that I could add to anything that hasn't been said.

JR: That's okay. Just giving you the opportunity to speak if you want it.

JAY: (moans) I have nothing to say!

JR: I'm a dumb, stupid rock musician! I have no brain!

JAY: That's right.

JR: I can only answer questions when prompted.

JAY: I can only answer a question when I have a written statement in front of me.

JR: On advice from my attorneys.

JAY: That's right. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

JR: You happy working at Epitaph?

JAY: Oh, yeah. It's great.

JR: Good job?

JAY: It's exciting to be part of that whole deal.

JR: If I ever move to L.A., I'll put in an application.

JAY: You're as good as hired. A lot of the people that come in to Epitaph and help out for a couple of days, you know, they're just like the guys in the band, they'll come in and help us stuff envelopes and stuff, and then there's [somebody], Jerry, Lee, me, Jeff...five people there full-time. And it works out pretty good.

JR: Sounds like it's fun, anyway.

JAY: Yeah. It seems to me, from talking to people at other labels, that it's a lot funner for us because we move a lot of product, whereas a lot of other guys are like, "Oh God, we can't sell that many in 10 years!" I guess we're getting that label recognition.

JR: Yeah, every label needs at least one big seller. That floats in the money to do what they want to.

JAY: You know what? In all honesty, this was like two years ago, Brett and I were talking, he said, "You know what we have to find? We have to find bands that will replace Bad Religion once Bad Religion is no longer Bad Religion." You know what I'm saying?

JR: He was speculating the group wouldn't continue.

JAY: Well, yeah. And it's not speculation, it's truth; eventually the band will have to stop.

JR: Even as such a part-time enterprise that it is?

JAY: Well, I don't know that it's a part-time enterprise...it's just like, everybody kind of...I don't want to ever put time limits on anything, but I mean, realistically, we're all going to be pushing 30, we're all having children, and it's like okay, well, I could maybe do it for six or seven years, maybe. That sounds like a lot of fun. But then again, who knows? Greg might want to pursue something else in his endeavors with his biology work.

JR: Well I hope not!

JAY: If that was the case, we've all agreed that if he ever decided that he didn't want to be in Bad Religion we wouldn't like get another singer. It's over. You know what I'm saying?

JR: It would be very hard to imagine you pulling it off.

JAY: We wouldn't even try.

JR: The Stranglers' and Echo and the Bunnymen's attemps recently have been complete and total failures, in my estimation.

JAY: I wouldn't even attempt it. I wouldn't even try. That's just the way I've seen so many other bands try to replace singers. You can't do that, especially with Greg.

JR: Particularly if you've got one as good as him, who's very distinctively voiced...

JAY: He's very unique. He's not just a singer. He's one of those God-gifted people that can come in and do his vocals in one take. And do his overdubs in one take. And then listen to them and go, okay, I want to add one more thing. And then that one thing that he does just floors you, and you go, "Fuck! How do you think that?" And he goes, "I just hear it." And I go, yeah, I could hear it too, but I could never just make it come out of my mouth.

JR: He's got an awesome set of pipes, too.

JAY: He's really one of a kind, as far as I've ever...for the kind of music that we play and the way that he sings, I've never heard anybody else like him.

JR: Well, I hope you're able to keep it together.

JAY: We'll be together until we're 60!

JR: Since it's only a couple of months a year...

JAY: Yeah. I think our recording times have been like, on an average, in 10 to 15 days.

JR: And then you take a whole year to distribute it.

JAY: Then it takes about eight months for it to get finished, which is like the mastering and the artwork and all that stuff. Since we're far away, we're always talking with Greg, going...

JR: "What about this, what about that..."

JAY: ...here's an idea. We're trying not to ruch things anymore. Be'cause it used to be that we'd record and we'd just try to put it out as fast as we can. And a lot of times it just seemed like we could have done something so much better if we would have taken the time to say, like, hey, let's make sure that everything's right. Even on this one there's some things that are wrong. But that's okay, because you're never going to get anything that's perfect.

JR: What's wrong on the new album?

JAY: I'm not telling you, you have to find it! (laughs)

JR: What if I tell you I couldn't find them?

JAY: Then I won't worry about them.

JR: I don't think there's anything wrong on the record.

JAY: No, there's nothing wrong on or with the record, there's just some mistakes that got by everybody. We don't have big filtration system that the majors do where is has to pass by six people's hands before it ever goes to press. Somebody might come in with approval for the Bad Religion artwork and I might be looking at something that No FX is doing and look at it and go, yeah, it looks fine, and it's gone. It goes to press.

JR: Was there a conscious decision on the part of the band to mix the drums louder on this album than previously?

JAY: I think Bobby just hits harder, you know? We recorded at a different studio, we had a whole new studio that Brett and Donald brought it to. Have you ever come up to that house?

JR: No, I've only seen the previous studio.

JAY: Which was the little house-like thing, right?

JR: The one like behind Raji's.

JAY: Right. Okay, see, they're no longer in that house. That was actually a house. And they rented the house and just kind of soundproofed it and made it into a studio.

JR: So Westbeach has moved, then.

JAY: Westbeach moved to a place called Producer's Workshop, which is actually the studio where Pink Floyd finished The Wall and Fleetwood Mac recorded Rumours. It's like a studio, it really is a real studio. It's not like a house with a window cut out so you can see the band in there and go "Hi!" Recording Generator, the reason why it sounds maybe the drums sound better is because we recorded it in a new studio. I don't know if they're just louder, I think it's mixed all around much better.

JR: I actually thought maybe they could have been mixed a tad lighter. In fact, they kind of obscure some of the guitars.

JAY: Thing was, we recorded...Brett, myself, and Bobby recorded everything live. Whereas before we were recording bass and drums first, and then sometimes I'd even go back and do the bass again, with th drum track intact. But this time the three of us recorded everything just right off the cuff.

JR: Well, this is actually a "mix" thing that I'm talking about, rather than actually a "recording" thing.

JAY: What I'm saying is that my amp was in the room, and so was Brett's, so there might have been a lot more drum coming in through my and Brett's half.

JR: Bleeding. There's a lot of bleed there.

JAY: Right. Exactly. Be'cause we were recording it live. If we went back and like did my bass over again without Bobby playing, then there wouldn't have been so much drum.

JR: Hmm. That's interesting.

JAY: So maybe in order to get my bass level up, he had to push it to a level where the drums came up as well. We were going for the spontaneity of the thing. In all sincerity, some of the basslines I played I had to go back and learn them because I just played them when I played them. That was the first time I'd ever done it. I would have to go back and go, okay, what did I play there? And I'd listen to it and go, "Fuck, how did I do that?" But I thought that was what was great about it. I really had a good time recording it.

JR: Okay, well, I'll let you go on your merry way now.

JAY: (yawns) I'm gonna go eat. When I think I have practice in three hours I'm dead.

JR: Yeah, Brett told me that you'd taken the day off.

JAY: I didn't even call, man. I slept until like one o'clock, and then I woke up and I went, (moans) "Oh, fuck..."

JR: What have you got, like the flu or something?

JAY: I think I've got a cold. I went to the zoo with my wife and son Sunday, and Brett goes, "Dude, there's so many runny, snotty-nosed kids at the zoo. Everything that you touch just has boogers on it." (laughs) I was going, oh, gross!

JR: Yuck. So your son's old enough to appreciate a zoo?

JAY: Not really. The only thing that he saw was the seals, 'cause they were moving in the water. He saw them, but everything else was kind of sleeping so it just was basically a rock, a bush or something, to him.

JR: Have to go back again in a few years.

JAY: Oh yeah. No, I'm planning on going back probably like once or twice a year, at least. I mean, you could spend an entire day just watching the monkeys.

JR: That's the Los Angeles Zoo?

JAY: Yeah.

JR: I didn't even know there was one.

JAY: It's nice. You should go there when you come out. We'll all go there, 'cause Brett's a Glazier member.

JR: Yeah, sure, sounds like fun. I probably be there next December or something like that.

JAY: I'd be glad to go to the zoo.

JR: All right, so nothing else, Jay?

JAY: I don't know. I wasn't at work today, so I don't know. The MTV news is still stunning to me. I'm really happy about that.

JR: I'll tune in Sunday night to see if they play it.

JAY: Yeah, that'll be great. But other than that, I can't think of anything.

JR: Well, keep making really good records.

JAY: We have to!

JR: Somebody's got to do it.

JAY: We're picking up where...who was it?...the Clash left off.

JR: Right. I would think so. Maybe third album Clash.

JAY: They got sort of weird toward the end there, so I've got to figure out who was a better band that just totally disappeard. When they were still in their prime.

JR: Got me, man.

JAY: We're picking up where How Could Hell Be Any Worse left off, that's really the truth. In all honesty.

JR: Yeah, I suppose. Though there is more of a variety of tempos on Generator than on the last three.

JAY: I think that has a lot to do with Bobby. Seriously. Pete was a good drummer but he really had, like, fast and slow.

JR: Yeah, we went through that last interview, three years ago.

JAY: So that was basically true. And Bobby's got fast, slow, medium...medium-rar...

JR: ...well-done...

JAY: He's got well-done. He's got different temperature settings.

JR: Just put him in the microwave and hit the button.

JAY: Totally, man! Defrost...cook 1...

JR: Well, thanks for your time. We'll send you a copy of the interview when it comes out.

JAY: Don't get a hernia transcribing this!

JR: I won't. [That's right, you won't] Only a small portion will appear in Rockpool...

JAY: About three sentences long...

JR: On the other hand, the entirety will appear in the next issues of Big Takeover. So I never waste a single second of my interviews.

JAY: Did Brett ever send you a check for the last thing we were talking about?

JR: Yeah.

JAY: Oh, I'm so happy.

JR: He's an organized musician, isn't he?

JAY: Not really. It kind of takes like everybody to like get together and go, "Did you do this? No? Okay, well, do that." That's one of the reasons why it kind of works out so well with the band: 'cause we're always talking.

JR: Pick up the new issue of Alternative Press too, with My Bloody Valentine on the cover.

JAY: I saw that. What's in there?

JR: I wrote about your show in D.C. in my column.

JAY: I saw that! Where did I see that in?

JR: Well, I wrote about it as well in Big Takeover, only entirely different.

JAY: You sent the Big Takeovers and I was reading that, so that's where I read that.

JR: Yeah, it's a completely different write-up, though.

JAY: Oh, good, I'll have to see that. I'll see it when I go down there to get my equipment.

JR: Okay. Well, I hope you enjoy the new magazine.

JAY: You know I will.

JR: Good.

JAY: I enjoy everything you write.

JR: Thank you.

JAY: And I tell everybody that.

JR: That's very kind of you.

JAY: Believe me. (laughs)